FAQ: 1 & 2
What about Aberforth? How can Ron be Dumbledore, when Dumbledore has a brother?
Here are a few possibilities…
1. Aberforth Dumbledore is simply Aberforth Dumbledore. When Ron goes back in time, he tries to look up Albus Dumbledore (the only person he knows who is alive at that time). Of course, there is no Albus Dumbledore, but he finds the Dumbledore family and the existing Aberforth who essentially becomes his adopted brother.
2. Aberforth Dumbledore is Fred/George/Percy/Bill/Charlie. One of Ron’s brothers goes back with him.
3. Aberforth is the ‘missing’ Weasley brother. The one that some people claim was born between Charlie and Percy. The Missing Weasley Brother theory has been batted around quite a bit. There was a DE attack on the Weasley home during the first war (remember what Arthur Weasley says about coming home to a Dark Mark hanging over your house). One of the Weasley kids was killed. In this version, Ron, on his way back in time, tries to save this brother… tries to change time, but, in fact, creates the whole missing Weasley thing. He takes this brother who supposedly died with him. The brother becomes Aberforth.
4. Aberforth is simply a friend or colleague Ron/Dumbledore knew in the past or a Weasley ancestor
What about the NEWT?
In OotP, the trio witnesses Griselda Marchbanks telling Umbridge that she had personally given Dumbledore his Charms and Transfiguration exams and he had done things with a wand she had never seen before.
First of all, the NEWTs are not regular Hogwarts exams; they are qualifying exams, rather like the SAT. It is entirely possible that Ron didn’t take them at Hogwarts at all. OR he did indeed go back to Hogwarts as a student. Maybe he just showed up? Maybe he enrolled? I don’t think this disproves the theory. Ron witnessed what Marchbanks told Umbridge. He knew he had to take the exam. He found a way.
Second of all, the bit about Dumbledore doing things with a wand she had never seen before actually does support the theory. Even though, at this point in time, Ron is no where near as powerful as Dumbledore, he does have the benefit of over a hundred years in magical advancements. He may very well have used spells that had not been invented in the time he went back. Hence, doing things that Marchbanks had never seen before.
If Dumbledore is Ron, why does he let Sirius/Cedric/the Potters die, why does he put Harry in danger, why does he let Sirius go to Azkaban, why does he let Peter get away, etc., etc.?
It is unclear whether or not Ron/DD can really change anything. The one example of time travel we have seen so far (in PoA), nothing at all was changed. Everything happened exactly the same way both times.
Assuming Ron /DD can change events, he still has to be extremely careful. If the Potters live, Voldemort isn’t defeated the first time and Harry isn’t ‘marked’ to defeat him the second time. Who knows how long the first war would have lasted and how many would have died without Voldemort being put out of commission by the rebounding Avada Kedavra? He knows he has to get Harry to a certain point in order to defeat Voldemort, so he is forced to make sacrifices.
Now, we do believe that Ron may indeed have tried to change events, but they backfired. We know he offered to be the Secret Keeper for the Potters, but was turned down. It looks as though he went to great lengths to keep Harry out of the Triwizard Tournament, but things went down exactly the same way. The one exception, we think, is the death of Cedric. We believe that in the first round, Harry may have been the proper Hogwarts champion, that there may have been a completely different DADA professor and that Crouch Jr. may have possibly posed as someone else.
Even if Dumbledore isn’t Ron, we know for a fact that Dumbledore allowed Quirrel to stick around an entire school year possessed by Voldemort. Snape certainly knew, Harry figured out that Dumbledore orchestrated the rescuing of the stone, so Dumbledore also knew. Dumbledore, even if he is not Ron, still did not need any convincing of Sirius’ innocence. He likely knew that Sirius was innocent all along. Dumbledore lets these things happen and makes certain sacrifices because he has to.
But you don’t have to take our word for it:
JK Rowling: I don’t want to say too much but Dumbledore is a very wise man who knows that Harry is going to have to learn a few hard lessons to prepare him for what may be coming in his life. He allows Harry to get into what he wouldn’t allow another pupil to do and he also unwillingly permits Harry to confront things he’d rather protect him from. As people who’ve read the Order of The Phoenix will know; Dumbledore has had to step back from Harry to teach him some of life’s harder lessons.
This was from the Prince Albert Hall interview that JKR gave on June 26th, 2003
HP chess musings/theories, connections to characters, and Ron=Dumbledore:
Message #379921 09-5-2003: HPFGU-ghinghapuss replies to Geoff re:kings protection
Note #2 07-26-2003 from a Harry Hermione shipping essay by Mad Eyed Mike
Message #69151 07-10-2003: HPFGU-terryljames76 Re: Bellatrix “is being set up as the ‘queen’ that Ron will sacrifice himself”:
Message #63471 06-24-2003: HPFGU-lizardlaugh Re: Connection between Ron, chess and Dumbledore
Message #48731 12-23-2002: HPFU-Christopher Nuttall Re: Relates chess game in PS/SS directly to the war
Message #48727 12/23/02: HPFGU-Rita RE: Significance of Chess pieces in PS/SS
Links to original discussions after post was published are found on he side bar.
For more discussion on K2K, check out: Unplottables
Have a link you’d like to suggest? Would you like for us to host a translation?Send it on over and we’ll check it out!
To fellow Harry Potter fans for help with editing, proofing, feedback, development, chess research, and generally putting up with our madness of the last month and a half! Hobbit_Guy, for planting the seeds of destruction in the mind of Lizardlaugh that Ron=DD.
NetworkGuy, for his patience in explaining /answering questions on chess and saying the magic words that made thinkmilly‘s head explode with a migraine:”The Bishop moves 4 spaces, then 3 spaces… that’s 7 spaces, that’s a completely legal move in Chess”
, judge7 (chess research / chess-literary development), sbbo (editing-proofing / chess-literary development last minute stroke of genius on second chess board),prncspnut (editing-proofing/ feedback), serpentigena (feedback), airemay (feedback/ development), the folks at the recent hp_california meet ups (feedback), lycoris, (who came up with a chess theory about the same time we did), and our respective friends lists aka: D.A.Additional Props to:
HPFGU (especially the chess folks), TLC (for everything they do), The Lexicon (for the Bertie Bott card and more), Livejournal, Regal Theaters (for allowing us to see the PoA trailer twice in one night), Apple, Diet Coke (and the Diet Vanilla variety), Internet, Cpt.
Morgan Jack Sparrow Rum, CoS DVD: Disk Two:Dumbledore’s Office, and Parseltongue.
Last yet certainly not least, the mad-genius woman who is cackling in her living room at the havoc she’s caused: JKR… Thank you for wrintng this series… you still have us on the edge of our seats!
Knight2King Rant… and some answers
A couple of days ago, Knight2King got linked on Fark. This gave rise to a HUGE rise in hits, not just from Fark, but from all over as everyone started linking to it and talking about it again. Not that they ever stopped, just that it was up to the levels it was back in January/February when it was first posted.
Generally, I don’t get involved in the discussions anymore. I just don’t have the time. I no longer really care if people believe, don’t believe, love it, hate it, whatever. It’s out there. It’s going to be in the books or it is not. Outta my hands.
HOWEVER… I keep seeing the same things brought up over and over and OVER again as proof against it and it
bugs the shit out of me needs to remedied. Some of these things are mentioned in the FAQ (not that anyone bothers to read it), some are not in the FAQ. I will be answering some of those questions/concerns here.
1. WOW! You people have waaaay too much time on your hands.
This is a common misconception. Oh how I wish we had the time to properly update K2K with all of the new things we have figured out, all of the new things other people have figured out and put the stuff about the NEWT, Aberforth, etc. in the text and not in the FAQ no one bothers to read. But we don’t. We hope to get to it eventually. Next to money, time is the one thing I wish I had a hell of a lot more of. While putting together K2K, I was averaging about four hours of sleep a night. No, we do not have too much time on our hands, we had to take that time from other endeavors, such as sleeping, eating, writing smut, bathing regularly, etc. I only wish we had too much time on our hands.
2. What about Aberforth? He’s Dumbledore’s brother. Therefore, Dumbledore can’t be Ron. Q.E.D.
Aberforth is a shady figure we know next to nothing about, other than the fact that he has an unhealthy obsession with goats. And we don’t even know if Dumbledore was joking or not. He was in one OotP picture, and only seen once by Moody who is a close, personal friend of Dumbledore’s. He may or may not have been the bartender in the Hog’s Head. That’s all we know. We don’t even know if he’s really Dumbledore’s real brother for a fact. I mean, didn’t Sirius hug Remus ‘like a brother’? Couldn’t he be a brother in arms? Could he, I dunno, be someone else besides Ron/Dumbledore’s blood brother? Why yes. Yes he could. Of all of the arguements against K2K, the Aberforth arguement is perhaps the most lame. There. I said it. If Aberforth is the only thing holding you back from considering Ron=DD a possibility (even a remote one), you lack imagination.
Ron has, what was it? Five brothers? Maybe one of them went back in time to retrieve him and got stuck there. Or went with him, and Aberforth really is a blood brother.
Maybe Aberforth is a friend he met in the past. Maybe he really is Aberforth Dumbledore, and when Ron landed back in time, he went looking for the one person he knew would be there — Albus Dumbledore. Unfortunately, there was no Albus Dumbledore, but he found the Dumbledore family and he found Aberforth.
Maybe Aberforth is Sirius Black. Quite a few people believe the Veil in the DoM is a time travel device, including thinkmilly, who, I believe, was the first person to suggest the Sirius=Aberforth theory. Now that JKR is getting all dodgy on us on the ‘death’ of Sirius, I am starting to entertain this idea very seriously myself. It really fits into the chess game metaphor in terms of how Sirius and Ron both get taken out of the game. It fits in with JKR’s recent comments on seeing Sirius again. It fits into her comments about him ‘having to die’. If he’s Aberforth, she had to ‘kill’ him. It was already decided. No turning back.
At any rate, ‘brother’ doesn’t have to mean coming from the same womb. I have no idea who Aberforth Dumbledore really is, but his existence doesn’t negate Ron=DD in any way.
3a. Griselda Marchbanks tested Dumbledore on his OWLS, which Ron already took. Dumbledore is not Ron. Q.E.D.
Griselda Marchbanks tested Dumbeldore on his NEWTs. NEWT. NEWT. NEWT. Not OWL, NEWT.
3b. Griselda Marchbanks tested Dumbledore on his NEWTs. How the hell do you explain that one? Did he just show up at Hogwarts? Wouldn’t they have noticed the extra student?
Well, first of all, the NEWTs are not Hogwarts exams. Just like the A-levels (on which they are based) are not regular school exams. An outside body gives the exam. While it is possible for Ron to have shown up at Hogwarts and take the exams (hell, it’s exams, who the hell is paying attention?), it is also possible he didn’t take his NEWTs at Hogwarts at all. In the UK, you can take A-levels after you are out of school. You just sign up and take them. People really do that. Just like people in the US who decide to go to college well after high school sign up to take the SAT.
3c. Griselda Marchbanks said that ‘Dumbledore could do things with a wand she had never seen before’. Ron is a total lamer. He can’t possibly be Dumbledore.
Ok, so compared to Hermione ‘Smartest Witch of the Age’ Granger and Harry ‘Defeated the Dark Lord Before He Was Potty Trained’ Potter, poor Ron seems rather unremarkable. But he’s actually not so shabby. Being friends with those two has its advantages, and compared to most people, Ron’s probably quite talented. You know, between the DA, the constant studying, being in the middle of a war and all that helping Harry kick Dark Lord Ass. His grades are no worse than Harry’s, and he certainly studies less. He’s not dumb. But that’s all beside the point.
What follows did not come from me, some very sharp person pointed it out. Unfortunately, I can’t remember who or where, but you know who you are so please ping me again so we can give you proper credit. This same person has a kick ass theory about Harry and Voldemort, so that should narrow it down a bit.
Ron is travelling ~140 years into the past. In that ~140 years, surely, SURELY there were all sorts of magical advancements. New charms and spells and things. Of course Ron could do things with a wand Marchbanks hadn’t seen before — they hadn’t been invented yet!
3d. Well, ok… but wouldn’t Marchbanks have recognized Ron?
For all we know, she did. But think about it… it has been ~140 years. And she wouldn’t think ‘OMFGWTFBBQ!11!!! Ron=DD!!111onemillion!!!’. She would probably say something like ‘you look very familiar’ or ‘you remind me of Albus Dumbledore when he was your age’. She may have indeed said that to Ron during his exams, and Ron didn’t mention it to Harry because, duh, there was a lot going on and it probably didn’t seem all that important.
Of course, the one time Ron and Marchbanks are around each other in Harry’s presence (and therefore in the text), this is what transpires:
‘Journey was fine, journey was fine, we’ve made it plenty of times before!’ she said impatiently. ‘Now, I haven’t heard from Dumbledore lately!’ she added, peering around the Hall as though hopeful he might suddenly emerge from a broom cupboard. ‘No idea where he is, I suppose?’
‘None at all’, said Umbridge, shooting a malevolent look at Harry, Ron and Hermione, who were now dawdling around the foot of the stairs as Ron pretended to do up his shoelace. ‘But I daresay the Ministry of Magic will track him down soon enough.’
‘I doubt it’, shouted tiny Professor Marchbanks, ‘not if Dumbledore doesn’t want to be found! I should know… examined him personally in Transfiguration and Charms when he did NEWTs… did things with a wand I’d never seen before.’
Marchbanks is looking high and low for Dumbledore, and Ron, who might trigger something in her mind (because he looks like Dumbledore), is conveniently tying his shoelaces so she can’t get a good look at him and remark on the likeness in front of the POV character. Pure genius, Jo.
4. When Dumbledore tells Harry about meeting Trelawney, it is as though he’s never heard the Prophecy before. While I can believe Dumbledore keeping things from Harry, this is a huge fabrication.
Ron doesn’t know about the Prophecy. Or rather, he knows there is a Prophecy, he knows it is dangerous and shouldn’t fall into the wrong hands, but he doesn’t know who made it (Trelawney) or what is in it (Kill or Be Killed). In fact, if Harry tells Ron about the Prophecy, I’ll consider Ron=DD a very dim possibility (because obviously Dumbledore didn’t know about it until he heard it, and that is a HUGE lie, not a small skirting of the truth). This is a very clear example of Dumbledore exerting free will that we can see first hand (so much of what DD we do not see). It is also a clear example of Dumbledore making the wrong decision (which he never does, at least from Harry’s perspective). Now… Dumbledore tells Harry he wanted to discontinue Divination at Hogwarts. He thought Trelawney was a fraud and only met with her because her grandmother or some such was a true Seer. Now, contrast this to what *Ron* says about Dumbledore, Trelawney and Divination:
“Bet Dumbledore wishes he could’ve got rid of Trelawney for good,” said Ron, now munching on his fourteenth Frog. “Mind you, the whole subject’s useless if you ask me, Firenze isn’t a lot better…”
For those who say Ron and Dumbledore don’t think alike, think again 😉 As an aside, this is not how JKR typically utilizes Ron’s alleged Seer ability. Ron says this *after* Harry has spoken to Dumbledore and has heard Dumbledore’s own opinion of Trelawney and Divination, not before.
5. Ron and Dumbledore are around each other, and Hermione tells Harry in PoA that they can’t let their past selves see their present selves. Plus, I’ve read lots of time travel stories, and meeting yourself will cause Bad Things to Happen.
The reason Hermione tells Harry they can’t be seen is because it would cause confusion — they aren’t expecting it, and might think dark magic is going on. And they’d be changing the past. Of course, the past can’t really be changed, but that’s a different discussion. It has nothing to do with any sci-fi plot device nonsense. Ron doesn’t recognise Dumbledore as himself, so he doesn’t know to be alarmed or freaked out. Nor has he been reading any of the time travel stories you’ve been reading and know take a subtle knife to the fabric of space-time himself.
6. This is just completely implausable. And lame. I don’t like it.
7. I ship Ron/Hermione, and if Ron=DD, that’s just ew. And sad. And R/Hr is omg canon.
Personally, I don’t think this negates R/Hr in any way whatsoever. For one, they could hook up at Hogwarts, and then Ron is tragically lost in time. It’s sad, but it doesn’t mean R/Hr won’t happen. For another, maybe Hermione goes back too. Perhaps to look for Ron. Perhaps she becomes someone else we are familiar with. Perhaps… McGonagall. About a third of the time Ron=DD comes up, someone will mention the possibility of Hermione=McG. I think it is possible, though I am not totally convinced. JKR did say there would be pairing up ‘in the fullness of time’. And if you watch her when she says this, she sort of covers her mouth with her hand and says it really, really fast. Like she knows the punchline to a really great joke, but is keeping mum. It’s… interesting. Very interesting. And we do know there are some teachers married, JKR just can’t go into it because that information is hidden for a reason. Hmmmm…
8. I ship H/Hr, and some of the things you said in the chess part of the theory seem to negate that. I don’t like it.
Well, the theory doesn’t go against H/Hr either. I personally like H/Hr (as well as R/Hr), though thinkmilly does not. I don’t know who Hermione is going to end up with, and K2K really doesn’t have anything to say about it at all. And contrary to popular belief, K2K doesn’t prove D/Hr either. K2K has nothing to do with shipping. Though I know how some H/Hr shippers like to conveniently dispose of Ron *stabz*, and this gets him out of the picture quite nicely.
In summary, K2K is officially Swiss.
9. The Marauder’s Map never lies. How can Ron show up as Ron, and Dumbledore constantly be pacing his office as Dumbledore? The Map proves Dumbledore can’t possibly be Ron.
Several points here…
— We can’t really trust what characters say, especially when said characters have imperfect knowledge. As far as Lupin knows, the map doesn’t lie.
— The map was created before Ron was born. Dumbledore was around, but he was Albus Dumbledore by then and not Ron. Map ain’t lying at all.
— Neither Harry nor the twins noticed Peter Pettigrew, so… hey, the map users aren’t exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.
— Dumbledore is always pacing in his office on the map. I wouldn’t put it past Dumbledore to charm the map to show just that. thinkmilly thinks Dumbledore may have had something to do with the Marauders getting the tools to make the map.
10. Ron and Dumbledore are NOTHING alike.
140 years can change you. A lot. But they aren’t all that different. Read what Dumbledore says about meeting Trelawney in chapter 37 of OotP, and read what Ron says about her in chapter 38. They do think alike. Then, go back to the Christmas scene in PoA… the one where Dumbledore pulls the hat boggart!Snape wore out of the Christmas cracker. Now tell me that’s not something Ron would just *love* to do.
Also, consider how much Ron idolizes Dumbledore. He wants to be just like him. And he will 😉
11. Dumbledore is superomgpowerful, and Ron is a lamer.
He’s got 140 years… and he knows what he has to do. He can become powerful.
12. Ron=DD makes the books about Ron.
I disagree. Harry still has to defeat Voldemort in the end. It’s Harry’s story. Ron’s whole existence ends up being to do all he can to make sure Harry is prepared to so. His life revolves around Harry. Sacrificing himself for Harry is the reason he goes back. It’s all about Harry.
ok… I am tired. That’s all for now. I may add to this later. Or not.
ETA: Why no, I didn’t use a spell checker for this.